Ashton
I'm Ashton Smith. And I'm Jordan Long. And we're coming in hot. We're seventh generation entrepreneurs with a passion for fusing creative expression and business fundamentals to help entrepreneurs powerfully expand their companies.
Jordan
Legacy Creator is a show for creatives, big thinkers, and visionaries who are doing business differently. Together, we unpack topics to help you embody your creative identity, develop as a leader, and powerfully grow your business.
Ashton
In a nutshell, we're calling you out and calling you higher. I am personally over the moon, so excited to introduce you to our guest today. Meredith Cancilla is the CEO and founder of Quixotic Design Co, where she and her team build industry-leading brands for women entrepreneurs. Not only is Meredith one of the most skilled designers I've ever met, but she is a brilliant business owner and just an incredible human being, which I know you will feel as you listen to this episode. We have had the pleasure of supporting Meredith for nearly two years now as a private client. And as someone who has been behind the scenes of her business, I can tell you, she truly walks the talk. In today's episode, we dive into what it takes to build an industry-leading brand, the key to recurring revenue and remaining booked out as a service provider, building a profitable passive income division, and so much more. Without further ado, here is our conversation with Meredith. Welcome to the podcast, Meredith.
Meredith
Yay. Thanks for having me. I'm seriously so excited. I've been looking forward to this all week.
Ashton
Oh my gosh. Me too. I feel like we're besties on the daily now. And so to have you on the podcast is just going to be so much fun. I feel like we're going to want to talk for hours and we'll just have to like rate it in for the people. Really?
Meredith
It's going to be like a boxer session times 10.
Ashton
I love it. Okay. For people that don't know who you are, why don't you just do a quick introduction, name, what do you do? And then give us like a couple of fun facts. Okay.
Meredith
Well, my name is Meredith Cancilla. I'm the founder, CEO, and creative director of QuickSonic Design Co. We're a brand and website agency who specializes in helping women entrepreneurs become industry leaders with strategic brands and websites. And let's see, fun facts. I guess this is a fun fact. I love doing grandma activities. So puzzles, sewing, knitting. So my vibe, like when I'm not working and I'm like having leisure time, I'm doing that kind of stuff. Other fun facts, I'm a big cat person. I love my kitty so much. She makes appearances occasionally in my social content. Yeah, Pepper, she's, she's around here somewhere. And then last fun fact is, I am about to start a family. So having our first baby boy, just all a new experience. It's so exciting.
Ashton
Oh my gosh. So number one, I love how we always think that like our fun facts aren't really fun facts because they seem boring. Cause it's just like, ah, that's not really like that unique, but also like, that's so interesting. And I totally relate to the grandma activities. Like last night I fell asleep at like eight or eight 30. And I was like in my prime, I'm like, this is all that I want. Like I want dinner at five and I want bedtime at like eight 30.
Meredith
I 100% agree. I want to be in bed at 7.45. I want to be winding down. Yes. Asleep at 8.30. That's my ideal schedule because you wake up so refreshed. It's so much better.
Ashton
I know. And I've always been a morning person too. I feel like I am missing out if I'm not up early, like I just enjoy it. So if I go to bed early, then, you know, I have a refreshed start to the day. So yeah, I'm all for that. Um, also just literally love. We're almost on the same trajectory with our pregnancy. Fun fact for anyone listening, we're both having boys and we're due within like two to four weeks of each other. Um, so we've just been going on this journey together. We're like out of breath together by doing nothing and it's fine.
Meredith
But it's like our whole boxer channel back and forth during our coaching container I feel like is us just huffing, talking to each other, just trying to get through the day. You know, it sounds like you're going up some stairs, but really it's just having conversation. Yeah.
Ashton
Honestly, at this point. Oh my goodness. Okay. Let's pull back the curtains a little bit more. And why don't you share a little bit about your story? Like how did you get started as a brand designer? I would love to hear like, back in the early days, like where you started, you like tease this out on social beautifully. And I think it's going to be really interesting for our listeners and really inspiring because I feel like you've come so far in your journey to building up your agency. So why don't you just paint the picture of what that looked like and where you started?
Meredith
Okay, yeah. So I guess I'll go way, way back, which is like, when I was a little kid, I loved being creative. And I was always drawing, painting, sewing, like making stuff. And I kind of grew up with a mentality that, you know, a lot of art society kind of forces on us, which is that a creative career is not possible or is not going to pay the bills. And so I kind of thought in my brain that, you know, this is a fun hobby, but it's not something that's going to be my job eventually. And so I kind of started going down this totally different path of I'm going to be a math major. And then I switched to comm and started doing relationship studies with couples and got really into that. And I was like, I'm going to be a professor. And this was super interesting to me, but there was always something kind of missing. And I didn't quite feel like I was living up to my full potential. And you know when you see someone else doing the thing you wanna do and you're like, oh, that looks so cool. So I went to college, I switched around a bunch and realized, I think it was my brother. One of his friends was a graphic design major and that was not offered at my school. So what I had to do was start just like piecing together different classes. There was a Photoshop class, an illustrator class, and these were like very elementary, at UCSB. And I started just kind of like taking these things on my own time and then learning on YouTube about design fundamentals. And then by the time I graduated college, I was on the track to go to grad school for the interpersonal comm relational stuff. And I thought like, let's take a beat, let's take a summer and just hang out, see what happens. Um, so I ended up working at a restaurant, which was one of the best times of my life, working with like all of my best friends in an oceanfront restaurant. It was just total debauchery 24 seven. Um, and, um, from there they were kind of rebranding some of the menus and I became friends with the owner. and asked him if I could just try designing the menu for him. I was like, I don't know anything, but please just let me do this for you. And he did. And they actually came out really cool. And they're one of my favorite products I've ever done to date. And they're still at this restaurant in Santa Barbara. So much fun. So once that happened, I realized like, oh, OK, I can actually do this. And I can do this for money. And this could be a career, potentially. So from there, I started, while I was working in the restaurant, started kind of freelancing and putting together portfolio, reaching out to different jobs on LinkedIn and Upwork, Indeed, all those kind of things, and taking on smaller side projects, which was quite an adventure in itself. If anyone listening has freelanced before, you know just the ups and downs of the freelance life and how chaotic that can be, both just for your mental health and your finances, you know, going from those like $500 months to like 10K months and back and forth. And it's so unpredictable. And I was working with a lot of clients that were not the best fit. I know this now, but didn't know at the time. So from there, I transitioned to working in a few agencies. And this is where I tell all of my design students, like, work for an agency if you're not gonna go to school. because you will learn more at an agency, I believe this, than you ever will in a four-year design program. I've seen people that I know go through these four-year, even graduate school programs for design, come out and have no idea how to run a business, no idea what to do with that degree, no idea how to work with clients. And so working with an agency, I'm sorry, Working with an agency shows you such a well-rounded view of everything where you're getting the design fundamentals, you're getting critiqued by a creative director that is way smarter than you. You're working with a team and you're learning to detach the emotional attachment from your designs and learning to embrace the concept that made the best design event. You're learning the business structure from the higher ups and you're learning client experience. So that to me was invaluable. That's like how to treat your clients. They want to come back and work with you again. They want to tell everyone they know about you, right? And so that I would say really shaped my career the most is working for agencies. And I did that for a few years. got some projects under my belt, felt like I was really getting to that more senior level. And all of a sudden, everything completely shifted in my personal life. So I was a few years into the last agency I was at, and this was like the most fun creative team ever. It was like an exposed brick building. Everything was cool and edgy and design forward. So I love this job. But I got some news that my mom had cancer. And so I kind of had to like pull back from this job. She ended up passing away a short five months later. And we were very, very close. And this kind of put me into a spiral of like, oh my god, like what am I going to do with my life? You know, anyone that's been through big grief like that kind of knows it will make you ask those questions of like, okay, is this what I really want to be doing? So from there, I ended up going back to work like nothing had happened, which is classic me, you know, just grinding away. And about like three weeks in, I was like, I can't do this anymore. And it wasn't just that I was grieving or I needed a break. It was, I think a lot of pent-up energy of, I didn't quite feel like the nine-to-five structure ever suited me. And I felt so much more creative when I was working on projects at home, freelancing, that kind of thing, versus on that really rigid structure that agency puts you on of like, turn and burn, you know? So I ended up leaving my job and launching Quixotic from, studio apartment, if you can even call it that. My husband Nick and I moved in together and it was like less than a studio, so small. And we had our bed in one corner of the room and my desk in the other. And that was the beginning of Quixotic. I basically just ran through my savings with absolutely no plan for the first few months, started building up a client base. And I knew from my agency experience how to create a client experience that would get referrals. That was the key piece there. And that's how I was able to kind of build up my network and start booking more clients that I loved working with from referrals from past clients. So from there, everything kind of snowballed into some really quick growth. Team members and kind of diversifying my offer suite from one-on-one services to courses and products and Now, here we are today.
Ashton
So, Oh my gosh, I feel like I just learned so much more about you. And I'm like, how can I possibly not know all of these things about you by now, considering we've been connected for like years at this point, that is so crazy. And one thing that I will say, I just love to note about your story and just hearing people's stories in general is like seeing the path and seeing the trajectory and seeing that. There were so many little steps that led to the ultimate mountaintop actualization of the big vision. Now you have this agency, and I'm sure you have a lot of eyes on you from other people that aspire to do something similar. And online, it just looks like everything's so easy, and the timelines to get there are so short. But something that I've noticed about you just with working with you is you are always so hungry to learn. and put in the work to develop your own skill sets to back whatever it is that you're doing, whether that's designing for a brand or that's putting out a course. You take the time to do it right in a way that doesn't necessarily forever delay action. It's like you found this balance where it doesn't have to be 1,000% perfect because nothing ever is, but you always strive for excellence and you really take the time to develop the skill set. And I feel like that's something that is largely missing from the online space because it is so accessible. Anyone can go in and start a business and start selling. And the initial focus is marketing and sales and just churning and burning to get people in the door. And I think that's just such a, it's like a dumb way to work. And it's also, you know, not very integrous. Another thing I love that you hit on was client experience and how that was so central to those like early days those foundations and that initial growth that you experienced. I think you and I, we talk about this all the time. And you with your students, you talk about like the behind the scenes of the business and building that ecosystem versus just going out and selling, you know, without thinking about all of these elements. And so I'm curious, just based on your experience working you know, at these agencies and now like serving so many clients through Quixotic, like what are some of the key things that you feel like people in the industry miss when it comes to client experience? And these could be like super simple. These could be like, you know, very different ideas, but what are some things that you've seen success with and what do you feel like people miss in that area?
Meredith
That's a great question. Well, first, thank you for all those sweet words. I feel the same way. I think we both really focus on aligning the client experience and making things so special for our clients. That's priority number one. And it's like, once you learn that way, there's just, it's hard to think otherwise. And so I think some things that people really miss are number one, this constant urge to hit a number or to make a sale or to find a new client. And I get it. You get that rush when you book a new client, right? It's so exciting. And you're like, wow, there's cash in my bank account. This is great. But there's so much to be learned from taking care of the people that are already in your network, that you're already working with, that I tell my students all the time. It's like, you can find one new client online and spend two days doing that. Or you could take care of the clients that you have and watch those clients become 10 clients because you did a good job. And so I think some things that people skip over in the client process especially, and when I say people, I mean agencies, is once they start to get some momentum and scale and they're hiring team members, it's all so exciting and you're expanding, right? Is they miss that piece of the client connection where you help the client feel heard. You help the client get to their goal. And it's not just about like creating a design and getting it out the door. or for social media managers, like creating the content and shoving it out, you know, it's about taking care of the client at every step so that it feels boutique and small, no matter how big your team becomes. And that's a big part with delegation, you know, is, is really taking the time to train your team members so that they can deliver an experience that is at the quality that you would. And that doesn't just happen, right? Like we both, I'm sure know from I've gone through so many learning lessons with team especially, it's really hard. It doesn't come naturally to spend the time training. Sometimes they can feel frustrating. It can feel like, oh, I'm going to have to do this myself, that kind of thing. And the more time you spend really working with your team and helping them get to a place where they understand the best route to move forward for a client. the better experience you're going to create for your clients, the more referrals and the more you can expand. So I think the biggest mistake I see is people just trying to scale too quickly, whether that's getting new clients, hiring new team members or whatever it is, without doing the groundwork of, you know, spending the time to train or taking care of their existing clients.
Ashton
That is seriously so huge. And I do think that some of that comes from just the mentality of the online space. It constantly just feels like more, more, more, more, more is the answer. Um, more sales, more team members, more products and services. And another thing I love about your business too, is like, it's actually really simplistic. I mean, you have your branding and website services. You do have some add ons that exist behind the scenes, but You have like two other products and you have this beautiful, like highly profitable business. You don't have to have a ton of things to sell. You don't even have to have like hundreds of clients in order to have a really profitable, beautiful, fulfilling business. And I think people miss that in our space. And I think a lot of people are catching up and waking up to that notion these days in the last like one to two years. Um, after hitting burnout after maybe, you know, failed investments, like we've both invested in people. Agencies are like, we have felt like just another number. Like people aren't paying attention to the details. People aren't really getting to know you, the brand, et cetera. And like that is felt by a customer. Um, and to me, it's just like, you can work so much smarter if you adjust. sit with, be with, get to know your clients, give them that incredible experience. It really does create that ripple effect. And I have so many clients personally that thrive, their business thrives because they have a client base that's like, they're with them for a long time. And like we have long standing clients as well. The only way that you do that. And then the only way that you create those referrals and word of mouth marketing is by focusing on the relationships and the experience and the individuals in front of you. And that may sound so like elementary, but I feel like some of the greatest truths in business are just really simple. And to me, that's one of them.
Meredith
That's so true. And you know, To your point, something that a client said to me once when we hopped off a consultation call, so very beginning of the project, right, was she was interviewing a few designers and she got off the call with me and she said, I felt like I was going to have to manage the project with the others or I was going to have to take care of X, Y, Z. And with your agency, it felt like I was going to be taken care of. And that is like the biggest thing that you can learn as a service provider, I truly believe, is just being able to help your clients feel heard, take care of them, go the extra step. And I don't mean you need to buy them crazy gifts or do anything wild extra like that, but just make the actual process of working with you really enjoyable for the client. What would they like to hear? What do they need to see from you to feel held, to feel supported, to feel listened to? How can we incorporate those things into the process without creating too much extra work for ourselves?
Ashton
So true. And I always say this, but I truly feel like the standard for this is so low in this space. And so if you do the simple things, if you respond to people in a timely manner, if you take on what you say you're going to take on, you do what you say you're going to do, if you do anything extra, often that's going to set you apart in a big way. And it's like, it's kind of sad, but it's also like, take advantage of that. Like, just go be a good human and like, do like a couple extra things and people are going to be blown away. our clients are hitting big milestones in their businesses. Milestones like hitting their first $400,000 a year, landing six-figure contracts, going from $700 per month clients to $3,000 per month clients, paid for three-month maternity leave, more vacations and time off booked than ever, partners retired from their full-time jobs, becoming debt-free, and establishing savings for the first time. And now we're diving deep into these results and sharing real stories from real people so you can get a glimpse into how the heck we made it happen. This is The Archives, a backstage pass to see our clients' stories, experiences, and transformations up close and personal. Simply visit myawakening.co slash archives to download your copy today. That's myawakening.co slash archives to get your copy today. Now, back to the episode. I want to shift gears a little bit here, because one of the biggest things that you're known for, that Quixotic is known for, is helping people create industry-leading brands. And I would consider Quixotic to be one as well, just knowing you, the behind the scenes of the brand, like the clients you work with. And obviously, you're helping people create their own industry-leading brands every single day. And so I wanted to see if you could unpack what does that mean, and what are you taking into consideration to help your clients achieve this?
Meredith
Well, first, thank you. Very sweet. So I think that becoming an industry leader comes down to a few things. For example, when you are booking a vacation and you're looking at a few options, maybe there is a hotel that's really close in vicinity to the things that you want to do. You look it up online. Their website's kind of sketchy. They don't really have a brand in place. You're like, I guess this could work. The photos are not great. It just feels like, you know, okay. Versus you find a hotel that is maybe less convenient even. It's not even close to what you're doing, but it's stunning. It's an experience. You go to their website and you're like, okay, I need to go here now. You can see their like cute yellow stripe branded umbrellas by the pool. And you can visualize yourself there with a drink in hand, you know, relaxing. So that's the kind of experience we want to create for the target audience with an industry-leading grant. And a couple of ways that we do that are with audience identification. So spending the time to really get to know your audience, what they need to hear from you to feel seen, heard, and connected, and then competitor differentiation. So we look at what everyone else in your space is doing, and what can we learn from them, and what do we want to do different. This is not a chance to bash competitors That kind of thing. It's really about learning from your existing market. And if there are any gaps that we can slide into to make you stand out in your industry. And then third is just identifying your special sauce. So all of my clients, I would say, are incredibly talented at what they do. And a lot of the times, they just need someone to put a sparkle on it for the world to really recognize that from the outside visually. They're already an expert. They've already been doing this for a while. They are so great at what they do. And we come in and just shine a light on that and help them hone in on their special sauce so that they can present this to the outside world. That's typically the disconnect we see is really high skill set, amazing client results, that sort of thing from a service provider. But they're not able to present this visually to their audience. And that's where that disconnect happens. So I would say for industry leaders, it's about communicating your value, how you're going to help your audience, and then how you can stand out from what everyone else is doing and do your own thing and really shine in your own lane.
Ashton
So good. Jordan always talks about how there's that phrase, don't judge a book by its cover. And we like to think that that sentiment is great and all. And I think that there's a place for it. But when it comes to the way that you're showing up online, does every little piece of content have to be perfect or the most extravagant thing? No. But does your brand have to leave an impression? Does it have to draw people in? Yes. Those first impressions matter so much. I'm curious your perspective on that phrase.
Meredith
Yeah, I think you have to have both, right? Because I look at it like this. People see some design as so subjective. But really, it's a visual language. We are communicating when we present a logo, a website, any of that. And we're communicating to our audience. And that communication is either saying, this is for you. This is the thing you've been looking for. Work with us. Or you're saying, we don't take ourselves very seriously, even though we're experts. And we don't invest in our own business. And it kind of communicates to the audience, like, well, why would I invest with you? So I think you have to have both, right? You've probably seen brands in the beauty space, for example. They have an incredible brand. Everything is so cute. But the product is absolute garbage. And that doesn't work either, right? So it's like you have to have both. And that's how brands are able to see those really incredible results, where they can scale really quickly. They can get these huge publications. They can get their products into major retailers. that kind of thing because they have both. And like I said, you know, most of my clients are coming in, they are such talented, incredible women that just need help directing the megaphone to help their audience see them as the incredible business owners they are.
Ashton
It's so true. You have to have substance. So when people opt in for whatever it is that you're offering, like they're blown away, they have that great experience. Like we talked about, but like you also have to be able to acquire them. You have to be able to attract them. You have to be able to create that reaction of connection. And Oh my gosh, I have to work with this brand. And I love that you hit on creating an experience through your brand. and creating that feeling of, oh my gosh, I have to work with this person, or I have to visit this hotel, I have to go to this restaurant. And you're willing to make those extra sacrifices, whether it costs more or you're gonna drive further, whatever it is, because you felt like you had a connection and you had that little experience just by seeing their brand and going to their website. And so I'm curious, from your perspective, what are some of the things that you see holding people and brands back from creating that reaction when people land on their socials and land on their website? What are some of the bigger no-nos that you see that people need to avoid?
Meredith
Yeah, I think there are a bunch. But to narrow it down to a few that are probably most common are, I'm going to say DIYing your logo and your website. And this isn't to say that you can't get something up to launch with when you're at the beginning stages and build and refine from there. I'm a big fan of, you know, launching now and refining later. So that's not the problem. It's more when someone's been in business for five years and they're trying to book high ticket clients at the luxury price point, they're offering a luxury service, that sort of thing. And their brand or their website looks super amateur or it's blending in with what everyone else is doing. You're making that decision harder for your audience. And we want to basically create a no-brainer decision for them. So when they come to your website, it's like, oh, where do I sign? I hear a lot from people, especially right now with the shift in our economy, especially, talking through, should I lower my prices? I'm not getting a ton of inquiries. And I've seen you talk about this in your stories, too, about just changes in the lead acquisition space. And I truly believe that People are still making high-budget investments. It's all about how you communicate with them. And if you're communicating the value and the return that you're going to provide for them, then it should be a no-brainer for your clients. Another mistake that I see pretty much, I would say, every business owner making before they work with a brand strategist is just trying out different templates. And I know how fun and creative it can feel to explore. And I want to harness that creativity, but kind of channel it into one cohesive look. So what happens when you are taking your logo and combining it with different fonts that you just added from Canva, or adding in random colors because that was part of the Canva template, or whatever you're doing. You saw something on Pinterest, you copied it, you're like, this is cute. I'm going to make it work for my brand. What ends up happening is you create this clouded effect of your entire brand that looks really jumbled. It looks not put together and it takes away from brand recognition. And this is actually very important to your revenue because when you create brand recognition, so meaning when your socials, your website, your logo, your business card, they all kind of speak the same language and it's communicating to the user. This is all part of the same business, right? you can actually increase your revenue. Studies have shown this. But when you jumble things up, you're adding in fonts here, colors there, and everybody does this, so no shade. But I think it's an important point to make that you really can make a difference in your revenue and your business with simple things like fonts and colors.
Ashton
So good. So good. Yeah. And I mean, I can think back to those early days before we worked with a brand designer and Jordan and I will go back and look at old stuff and we're like cringing. We're like, Oh God, what are we doing? And it's like, you know, you, you start somewhere and I love that you hold that perspective as well. I'm the same way. It's like, if you're at the very beginning, like, you know, do what you need to do to get started, to get going. Not everything has to be perfect, but I think that you do reach this point in your business where you've built the foundations. And especially if you are wanting to charge higher ticket, I would even say mid ticket. If you want to build anything of substance, like if you want to build a substantial community, even if you are solely selling like passive income products, you want a cohesive brand. Like you want a brand that's going to be different. That's going to be set apart. That's going to call in the right person. So you reach a place where that's absolutely necessary. And I can confidently say like if we had never invested, I mean we wouldn't have seen the growth and results that we've seen over the last few years because we could have never created what our brand designer created for us. And so it does really set you apart in such a powerful way. When people come to this episode, I know they're going to be wanting to know all the things about, okay, what makes up an industry-leading brand? How can I be one? I'm sure they're also going to be thinking about how an industry-leading brand is going to be a brand that has clients and is probably booked out or on their way to be booked out. And so I'm curious if you could break down, like what are some of the things that have helped you personally, like stay in demand and stay booked out as a service provider, as a brand designer, because as someone like myself, I've seen and worked with a lot of brand designers where like, this is such a struggle because you feel like you're constantly having to like burn and turn to find brand new people. Um, and I'm curious for you, like what has helped you continue to acquire clients, but even have like return business, um, retain clients, because I think that there's a much more holistic picture for this for you than just I'm landing, you know, a new client every single week.
Meredith
Oh yeah. Yeah. Let me tell you, there are times of, high client inquiries and the opposite, right, in every business. And so I think what it comes down to, at least for my business and what I teach other designers, is to identify a formula. Like, make this simple and fun for yourself so that lead generation and booking clients doesn't become so scary or daunting or, you know, where is my next client coming from? I'm panicking. So what I like to do is, what I did for my own business, for example, is really time myself. So create my offers in packages. And when I say packages, I don't just mean like you get three logos and a color palette. It's about the timeline of the entire package. It's about the price point, how long it actually takes you to complete the project. So not just how long does the product drag on, but how many of your hours specifically are involved. I would say Thinking about how many projects, realistically, you would like to work on per month. Maybe that's one project per month for you. Or it's five. It's different for every designer. And kind of reverse engineering your pricing, how far you're booking out, et cetera, from there. And something that is, I would say, unique to my method is putting an expiration on proposals. Something that I experienced a lot in the freelance world was sending over a quote to someone over email. And going back and forth over email, everyone's getting kind of confused. There's like 10 emails on the chain now. Where's the contract? Oh, they haven't paid their invoice yet. You're kind of hounding the client to get all this stuff done. And just eliminating that whole process with a proposal, contract, and invoice that's one and done. And it has an expiration. It creates that urgency for the client. And it's not false urgency, right? It's like, to hold a start date, you need to complete this by the expiration date. And it helps clients to see that you're not just available to take on their project tomorrow or the next day. And it kind of brings this tone where you're the expert. You're going to be guiding them. And the package that you've selected for them, that you're recommending for them, has everything they need to succeed. So it's not about, can you make my logo in five hours? Or can you design my brand in a day or my website in a week? I'm seeing these offers pop up everywhere for designers. It's about telling the client with your offer, this is everything you need to get x, y, z result that you know they really want. And so focusing on creating packages that are easy to understand how to time block, basically, And then creating packages that are going to get your client's results is how I've been able to stay looked out. And of course, in addition to client experience, I'm just really loving on my clients so much because I really do. I think that doing that groundwork first of identifying the time pieces, the financial piece of it, and using that information to understand how far to start booking in advance, not only creates demand, but it also gives you some freedom in your schedule. So if you want to take two weeks off at Christmas time, you just don't book clients during those two weeks and it's done, you know? So I'm a big fan of free booking, of setting the tone with your projects and basically giving your clients the experience they need and directing the timeline of the project so that you're not stuck in that freelance cycle where, you know, someone reaches out three months later, and they're like, okay, I'm ready to book your service now. And you're like, well, I'm super busy, and I can't, you know, creates a little bit more flow in your schedule, instead of this constant up and down movement that is freelance for all.
Ashton
Yeah, I absolutely love how your proposal experience that you've spent so much time creating sets the tone for your time with your clients. Like it's not just, you know, we have an expiration for the sake of having one because this is a sales tactic. it does check off all of those boxes that you just listed off of like setting the tone of I'm the expert and I'm coming in with this big picture, you know, vision and expertise to help you, to guide you, to make recommendations for you. And it's not just a free for all either. Like we can't just start you tomorrow, you know, and you can't come back in four months and expect number one for me to be available. And number two, for the price to be the same, because the price might not be the same, you know, you don't know that. Um, And I think that is a mistake, a lot of people make is you get so excited because you have people coming in and you know inquiring and by all means if you have capacity take them on but. You also have to consider, too, the lifestyle that you want to lead. That's a whole other discussion and side tangent to this. But if you are reacting and saying yes to everyone at all times and starting immediately, what type of tone does that set for the container and for that client relationship? There's no boundaries there. And I feel like that's how you get into those situations where you're working with super unaligned clients, and they're directing the show more so than you're leading the process. which sends you into a state of insanity and just frustration. So I think that that part of your process just sets the tone so beautifully. I do love that you pre-book. I love that client experience has repeat business coming sometimes. And of course, your referral base is so strong as well. You even will offer payment plans behind the scenes too. So there's just so many little things that I think you do that add up to, OK, this is why we're booked out, and this is why we have that recurring revenue coming in. And so those are all just golden nuggets for our listeners to think about because you don't just want to have your client projects for the next 30 to 60 days lined up. We really want to have business lined up and booked for the next six plus months so that you're not going insane trying to burn internally a new sales all the time. And then you're focusing more on the marketing than the quality of the experience and the service. So it just kind of comes around full circle. I also love that you said, do some basic math, reverse engineer. I can't tell you how many times I talk to a potential client and they're like, I want to make this much. But then I ask what they're offering and what they're charging and what their capacity is. And it's like, Well, like you can't realistically hit that goal with the capacity that you have. Like your prices are too low. You have to have too many people to come in, like beyond your capacity. So it's just like thinking through little elements like that.
Meredith
That is so true, Ashton. And you've even helped me with that, you know, like to get to those next big picture goals. Sometimes, you know, we have to have that reality check of, Hey, realistically with the time that you have, that is not the trajectory we're going, right. And you need to pivot. whether that's hiring a team member or adjusting rates, whatever it is, you have to be ready to pivot. And I did want to go back and say another tip for booking out, becoming more in demand and starting to have a wait list of clients is to start at the very beginning and be selective about who you're working with. And I know this is easy for someone in my position to say. And I know that at some point, there is a bottom line. You have to make money. So do what you have to do. However, when you get to the point where you can be a little bit more discerning with the clients you're taking on, this is going to change the game for your future bookings, for your referral network. I can tell you right now, I am so selective about the clients that I work with. I get to be now. It's such a luxury and a privilege. And this alone has helped me create repeat clients, create crazy, incredible referral networks. And I teach this to my students too, because when we come into a sales call or a consultation call with kind of nervous energy of like, I just need to book a client, right? We're setting the tone for that project where anything goes, there are no boundaries, that sort of thing. And we really want to come across, like I was saying, like the expert, like you're going to guide this client, get them what they need, take care of them. And a lot of that comes with having a conversation and identifying if this person is a good fit for you and your business too, right? And vice versa. So I think by being a little more discerning about the clients you're taking on, you can be able to create some incredible, incredible results as far as pre-booking goes, stabilizing your income, that sort of thing, because like attracts like.
Ashton
That's so good. You're not going to have a quality referral network. if you aren't working with the clients that are aligned and also like quality clients, you know? And I mean, if you are going out, if you're leveraging like outbound marketing, you're targeting, you're pitching, which I believe pretty much every business owner should, unless you just reach, you know, the pinnacle and you have a team that can help with that, you know, you have control over who you're targeting. And so don't go out out of fear, playing small and thinking, you know, I'm just going to, skim across the surface and go for the bare minimum. Those clients that I know will say yes, and I'll undercharge. No, like go for the brands that you really want to work with, because if you're able to land one or two at a proper appropriate rate, then you're going to be able to create that ripple effect in your referral network and your word of mouth marketing is such a good point. I love that. That's so good. Another thing I wanted to touch on today, because you create the most beautiful brands, most beautiful websites, work with the most incredible clients, but another part of your business, you have a couple of passive income products that you've built over the span of a few years. And it is something I want to touch on because I feel like passive income is such a hot topic. And I know for me, when I entered the online space, I was like, yes, I'm going to create a course and make a hundred thousand dollars every month. And it's going to be like magic. I'm going to pay for, you know, Facebook ads and get everything going. Um, it obviously didn't work out that way. And I think there is such opportunity in creating these specific products that capture like your signature process for something. And I think that's what you've done, especially with one of your courses. Um, but I'm curious if you could just shed some light on like for other business owners that, you know, they really want to create passive income. That's part of their long-term vision. What would you tell them? Like what, what is required to get there to get that actually working to where You don't just create it and it sits there, but you actually have people that are opting in, and it's creating results for customers.
Meredith
That is such an important question, because I agree with you. Passive income is such a buzzword right now, and everyone is hopping into the course space, the digital product space, which I love it. Those could be such amazing additions to your income. I think that you have to be willing to put in the time to learn. And when I say learn, I mean, you think, for example, with a course that you're going to be doing all this teaching and you're packaging up your knowledge for someone else to learn. But creating a course in itself is such a learning process. And it took me a couple of years to completely go from A to Z in getting it all set up, getting it to a place where it works. um, and where it's actually getting incredible results for students, right? And so a lot of that is learning. It's learning about your audience, learning about what they want to discover in their journey that's going to get them great results. And it's learning about funnels, right? It's like passive income doesn't exist without constant adjustments. And that's a huge myth that I think we both agree on is like, you set it up once and then you're constantly just making a hundred K a month. And while passive income products can be incredible additions to your income, that's not quite the way that it works. And you have to be willing to learn the ins and outs of your funnel to adjust your sales when you need to and make changes and hire experts wherever you can. Again, it's all a learning process and so much of it will require attention. But once you get it set up and you stay consistent with it, you can see some pretty incredible results. It's more about giving it time, assessing the data, changing one thing at a time so you can create measurable results rather than, OK, I'm going to redo my whole email sequence and my sales page and everything at once. So taking it one step at a time, testing one step at a time is the biggest thing as far as maintaining the health of your funnel, the growth of your course or your product, whatever it is over time. And just being able to make that a significant contribution to your revenue every year, which it will, you know, the more time and effort you put into it.
Ashton
Yeah. I definitely feel like with passive income, the biggest thing is that you have to view it as a long-term project. Like if you want quick cash, overnight, number one, maybe go find a job that will pay you immediately. But number two, do not go for passive income or even low ticket offers. I'm always upfront and blunt with people about that. It's more of a fantasy than an actual reality. And that's definitely something I feel like you have prioritized in your business. And some of that probably comes from just how and where your business originated, like with the passing of your mom, like thinking about what do I want and like, how do I want to live and what do I want that to look like? And I think that's affected how you think about how you build your business. It's never just, I want to make as much money as fast as possible. Obviously, the finances are an important component, but you are always thinking about the life that you want to create. And I know that was very influential when you created your products. You're thinking about long-term, I would love to have the ability to diversify. And if I want to take time off, I don't want to have to have a billion clients lined up. I want my prices to be appropriate. And then I want other income sources. And so it has to be worth it to you, I think is the biggest thing. Um, it is so doable. I mean, like you're a living, breathing Testament. Like you can do it. It can be profitable. It can be amazing. You can be sitting in your bed or sitting on the beach and have sales come in, but you do have to work for it. I feel like you have to pay your dues and You have to actually put in the work to get to that place. Um, and there is a lot of tinkering. It's never just like one and done, even when it's optimized, there's always more that you can do. And I feel like, you know, for like a year and a half to two years now, we've been like tinkering with one particular funnel that you have, which is wild.
Meredith
So true. I'm like, finally, we're getting to a place. It takes a long time, you know, but not to say that, like, making the income you want needs to feel hard or anything like that. But, you know, I think if you go into the mindset that, you know, a lot of really toxic creators are promoting, which is if you take my program, you'll make 50k months instantly. You know, I hate to see stuff like that because what a lot of students don't realize is that person is making that money from you buying their course. And so something that I really wanted to maintain integrity wise is always being a designer first. That's where the majority of the income in this business comes from. And, you know, not to say that if someone has a different model than me, that's, that's, it's great for them, right? Like I, I support however you want to get your back. But the problem comes in when people start promising things to their audience, to their students, you know, you're going to get XYZ results if you do what I did, And they don't even do what they say they do, you know, um, and focusing on the dollar amount is not going to get you to the place you need to go with that. It's definitely a long-term project. It's definitely possible to make incredible income from a passive source, but you just got to go into it with the mindset, like anything else in business, right? Like acquiring clients, it doesn't just happen quite overnight. But the more you love on it and the more effort you put into it, the more it will be a huge reward for you in the end.
Ashton
So true. So true. Well, speaking of lifestyle in coordination with building your business and driving revenue on all of the beautiful things, one of the biggest transitions that we're both about to make is going into being moms. And I know you're technically like, are you like on leave right now?
Meredith
And I'm like quietly escaping. I'm like, I'm not here. Don't talk to me. Um, yeah, so I have finished up client work that involves me, which is amazing. I don't know when the last time was that I, you know, wasn't working with a client day to day, which I really do love doing. And it feels, I will tell you the first couple of days was kind of a shock. I felt like a retiree. I was like, what am I doing? Um, but it feels really good. So yeah, I'm pretty much on leave. And, you know, if you're an expecting mom and a business owner, I would say the best thing you can do for yourself, your sanity, your business, maintaining your income is to work with Ashton, because that has completely changed the way I've looked at this leave, it's made it possible for me. And, you know, while I do have a team, There are of course things that fall on my plate, right? And I can sometimes get in that mindset where I think I have to do everything and you have really helped me be able to press pause, to enjoy this time with my family and still keep my business up and running, which is so special. And I never thought that would even be possible, you know, Um, it's the best of both worlds thing. You know, when you quit your nine to five, people are like, you're not going to have insurance and leave and all this stuff. And it's like, yes, we do get to have those things. You just have to plan a little ahead.
Ashton
Yeah. Oh my gosh. It's been so fun planning for your leave together and also simultaneously planning mine. Um, it's, it's totally one of those things. I remember when like Josh left his job years ago and. People being like, what are you going to do for insurance and benefits? And I just feel like there's so many bigger picture things that we can think about beyond that. And both of us going into our leave and being able to take that time off and not only take that time off, but then come back to something that we love, that we love doing. Clients we love, work we love. There's absolutely sacrifice with anything that you do, but it's totally worth it. It's going to be so good. We're about to be moms and I'm curious for you, like what, what are a few of the top things that have been the most helpful and you feeling comfortable taking like significant time away for leave? Like what are some things that you've prepped for or you've shifted or for anyone else out there that's curious and preparing for that season?
Meredith
Yeah, I think the, honestly, the biggest thing I had to shift actually was my mindset. Because the logistics stuff is not that hard when you actually just make a list and check things off the list, right? And don't get me wrong, there's a lot of prep involved. But the biggest thing for me, it was like the biggest breakthrough was changing my mindset around scarcity and lack and feeling like, let's reframe this into, I get to spend this wonderful time with my family. And that's something that I learned from my mom, actually, she was a super big powerhouse at work, but she always made time for us. She always made us feel like we were her number one priority. And it's hard to do as a business owner. And as you're stepping into motherhood, it's really hard to imagine how that's going to balance out. Right. And so I'm choosing to focus my mindset around, like, I get to spend this time with my family, which like, that's where we create these businesses in the first place, right, is to have those moments to not have to go into the office, to not have that existential dread on Sunday night. So that's been the biggest shift that I've noticed, and my husband's commented on too, which we're both just so excited for. The more logistic stuff, I will say, is just prepping, especially with content, with incoming projects, all of that kind of stuff. And a big piece of that is having my team in place because if I was doing everything myself, it would be so, so tricky to figure out all those moving parts. And when you have people that you trust that you can delegate to, it makes a lot of this so much easier. Um, so I know that that's looked like a lot of content production on my end ahead of time. And you know, that way my audience is still getting value from me, even when I'm physically not here. can still learn on the educational side from me, even when I'm not, you know, recording on my phone that day. And then a lot of logistics stuff that I have other team members helping with as far as onboarding clients, getting projects set up, basically communication with existing clients and that sort of thing. And then just business operations. So the stuff that I typically do every week, you know, kind of bashing out those tasks to make sure that the overall health of the business is maintained. I have some sort of like status report coming in to keep an eye on things if I want to or not, which has been huge. But again, the biggest, the biggest, most helpful piece of this entire puzzle has been working with you because you've been able to kind of get me out of my own head and help me make everything into a sort of checklist. with different sections, different pieces are going to different people. And it makes it doable versus like, how am I going to do all this by myself? It makes it feel so much more digestible. And also, to any expected moms listening to this, it's temporary. This is not how your business is going to go forever. It's OK to step away from life. And that's, again, why you probably started your business in the first place.
Ashton
Yeah, it's so good. It's such a blend of like the logistics and the mindset and that reframe of like, you know, I get to do this. This is something that I get to do versus just looking at it like a burden or a chore or, you know, I think when you get bogged down in the like, how's everything going to work while I'm away? I mean, it's an important question. You do want to prepare, but like not allowing that or fear to really like drive how you're feeling about all of it. Cause it is something that we get to do. Um, so this is just such a beautiful way to round out this conversation. I feel like we covered so much and honestly, this is such a value packed session and an episode. Like our listeners are going to love this so much was covered. Um, and I just appreciate your time so much. And for people that aren't yet connected with you, give us all the details. Where can they find you? What's the best way to connect with you? And if they want to, um, you know, work with you or purchase your courses, where do they go?
Meredith
Yeah, so you can find us most popularly on Instagram at Quixotic Design Co. You can head to our website, QuixoticDesignCo.com to check out our one-on-one services. If you're a client looking to rebrand or build a website, that's where you would check that out. We also offer tons of learning resources for designers. So we've got templates, courses, you name it. free masterclasses for y'all to learn all through our website. So if you go to our Instagram, you can see all of those resources there. And I have so enjoyed this conversation. I love talking to you every day anyway, but you have just changed my business for the better times a billion. And if anyone is thinking about working with people like me, like 100% dive in. It is so beyond worth it.
Ashton
Oh my gosh. I adore you so, so much. You guys check Meredith out. If you're wanting to invest in your branding, if that's the stage of business you're in, or if you're a brand designer and you're wanting to build something similar to Meredith, go check out her courses. Dream Big Designer, shout out, like incredible. Just was taken out and available to the public this year for the first time ever. So you can go check that out right now. Thank you so much for your time, Meredith. This was so much fun.
Meredith
Yay, thank you. This was so great and would love to do it again soon.
